– Greta really made a meal out of the, hi Barbie, hi Barbie, hi Ken, hi Ken. You know, that whole bit. And then, hi Alan. And yeah, now people on the street say, “Hi Barbie”, a lot. – Probably- – I like it. I’d rather people be shouting that at me than other things. – This is true. – I’ll take it. – [Cillian] For the rest of your life.
– For the rest of my life. (upbeat jazzy music) (upbeat jazzy music) – First of all, well congratulations on your reasonably successful film. (laughing) – Congratulations to you. – Thank you. So, you’re a producer on the movie as well. How did you know a Barbie movie would connect with audiences in the manner that it did? Or did you know? – Yeah, it’s like 90% of me was certain that this would be a big deal and a massive hit.
And then like 10% of me thought, oh, this could go so badly wrong. But I went after Greta Gerwig from the beginning to direct and hopefully write as well, and then she invited Noah to write with her. Without really even consulting him, but it meant we got two brilliant- – Yeah. – Brains on the project. And it really came down to her saying yes to this.
I had no doubt that this was gonna work, as soon as she said yes. – And she was always your first choice then? – Yeah, first choice. – [Cillian] Okay. – I just wasn’t gonna let her say no. I had met her before, ’cause I’ve wanted to work with her for a while. You know, it was a pretty long process. It was about six years ago we got the property.
First, you know, it was set up at Sony. We got it outta Sony, set it up at Warner Brothers, got Mattel’s blessing to let us produce, then went after Greta. – Okay. – And then it was like the writing process and… Yeah, I obviously, I didn’t know it was gonna have the kind of- – Yeah. – Be the cultural phenomenon that it ended up being.
– When did you realize that that was what it was going to be? – I knew there’d be big reactions to… All the way along I could, I was like, okay, I think people are picking up that we’re trying to do something interesting here. You know, the fact that it’s Greta Gerwig. People were like Greta Gerwig in a Barbie movie? What? – Yeah.
– And so that was the right reaction. That’s what I was hoping for. And then, you know, the pictures of Ryan and I rollerblading on Venice Beach came out, and like went even wider than I was expecting. I was like, oh, people are gonna notice, of course. But it went kind of crazy, and it was starting to occur that, oh, this might even be bigger than I’m even thinking.
And I believe in this more than anyone. – Yeah, of course. – I’d been thinking big for it, and it still turned out bigger than I expected. – Hey, Barbie? – Yeah? – Can I come to your house tonight? – Sure. I don’t have anything big planned. Just a giant blowout party with all the Barbies and planned choreography in a bespoke song.
You should stop by. – In terms of the sort of the version of the film and the adaptation or the idea of it, you know, were Mattel cool with that from the beginning? Did you have any kind of pushback with how kinda radical you were trying to make or- – Yeah. – What was the- – I mean, Mattel were amazing to let us do this.
And I mean, they’re a character in the film. – Yes. – Which I don’t think they were expecting at all, but they had no idea until the script was done. So, Greta and Noah’s process is to go away and not let anyone see the script. – Okay, even you? – Until they’re totally finished. No, even me. – Wow. – We would kinda like, ’cause it was COVID, so they were writing it during COVID.
We would do, you know, talk over Zoom and check in and be like, “How you guys going?” And it was so fun, ’cause you could watch Greta and Noah like, you know, they’re like, “Oh, we’re working on this idea.” So they’d tell us, you know, like “Working on this idea.” And then they kinda like, you know, when you talk to a comedian, you can tell sometimes they’re like testing bits on you. – Yeah.
(laughing) – They kinda like test bits with each other. And we would just sit and, Tom and I would just sit and like watch them, and be like, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, “’cause Ken’s probably, you know, “Ken would probably be like…” And you know, say something, and then she’d jump in and be like, “Yeah, it’s kinda like…” And then before you know it, they’re kind of writing a scene, but verbally and in front of you.
And it’s a fascinating process. And they write chronologically, so they don’t map something out- – Oh, cool. – And then write it, which a lot of writers obviously do, but they write themselves into corners and write themselves outta corners. – Yeah, like we used to do as kids. Just like make a story- – Yeah.
Yeah. – And then, yeah. – And like let it unfold. And I think because of that, the story has a quality of, you know, you not getting too far ahead of it. Because they didn’t know where it was gonna end up really. – Yeah. – So it was fascinating to kinda watch their process. And I think the movie is so, you know, amazing and original because of that process.
But then, yeah, it came the day where the script was in our inbox, and Tom and I sat down on the couch to read it, and like even on page one, I was just like, “Oh wow, okay, this is, “it’s gonna be hard to convince them to let us to do this, “but I’m loving it.” I mean it started with a Kubrick reference, like completely redoing “2001: Space Odyssey,” and I was like, “Oh, I don’t know “if this is what Mattel had in mind.
” And then by the end of the script, you know, I was just like, “Wow, they’re just, “they’re never gonna let us make this. “It’s such a shame that this brilliant piece of writing “will never see the light of day, “’cause they’re never gonna let us make this.” And they did, thank God, and a massive credit to them.
But it was a lot of conversations about getting them comfortable with being very, very, very uncomfortable. – So they had a sense of humor. – They did. – Yeah. – And, you know, Mattel, they’re a toy company and they haven’t made a movie before. – Yeah. – So there’s also like a educational process of like, oh, okay, this is what you’re reading on the page.
It took a second for me to realize that some of their concerns could be assuaged just by explaining the process of- – Yeah, yeah, yeah. – You know, for some things they’re like, “But Barbie’s saying this.” And I’d be like, “Okay, but this is how I’m gonna do it.” – Yeah. – And then I’d say it, and they’re like, “Oh.
” And I’m like, “See how my, my face is telling you “that I don’t think that.” – Okay. – “But the words “are saying that.” – Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that’s subtext, and there’s subtext all through that. You know, and they’ll be like, “Oh, okay.” And then still there’s some jokes where they’re just like, “Do we have to use the word fascist?” (Cillian laughing) Do we need that bit where Mattel employee gets shot? Do they have to be shot? You know, we’re like, “Yeah.
” So there were certain jokes, and I was so prepared to like fight for certain jokes, and then like, you know, to explain like, “Oh, we have to have that joke “because of this and this and this.” And some of them they’re just like, “We’re fine with.” And then other jokes I didn’t think they’d have a problem with, you know? But it was never a case of, oh, they didn’t like that so let’s cut it.
It was, no, no, no, we need to explain why we think that should be in. – Yeah. – And get everyone, like I said, comfortable with being uncomfortable. (“Also Sprach Zarathustra”) Did you think so many people were gonna watch a movie about the making of the atomic bomb? (Cillian laughing) – No, Christopher Nolan was always determined that it would be released in the summer as a big tent-pole movie.
That was always his plan. And he has this kind of superstition around that date. The 21st. – Do all his movies come out on that date? – In and around the 21st of July. Or it could be always the 21st. So, they always come out then. – I mean, it’s a good date. – It’s a good day. It is now. – We picked that day, too.
– Yeah, I know. (laughing) – I remember one of your producers, Chuck Roven, called me, ’cause we worked together on some other projects. – Okay. – And he was like, “I think you guys should move your date.” And I was like, “We’re not moving our date. “If you’re scared to be up against us, “then you move your date.
” And he’s like, “We’re not moving our date. “I just think it’d be better for you to move.” And I was like, “We’re not moving. “I think this is a really great pairing, actually. I think it’s like- – Well- – It’s a perfect double billing, “Oppenheimer” and “Barbie.” – That was a good instinct. (Margot and Cillian laughing) – Clearly the world agreed.
– Yeah, they did. – Thank God. – But I think that both of these films show the appetite that the audience has for cinema. – I’m always like, you know, everyone talks about the algorithm. I’m like, yeah, how on earth is an algorithm tracking me, because I have such an eclectic taste. If you look, you’d be like, wow, she’s going from, you know, that black and white film from the 20s to “Love Island,” so like, what box do I put her in? – Yeah. – Same thing.
But the fact that people were going and being like, “I’ll watch ‘Oppenheimer’ first, then ‘Barbie,'” I was like, see, you don’t, people like everything. People are weird. – People have specific- – Yeah. and wide-ranging tastes. – And they don’t like being told what to do. – Yeah. – Audiences don’t like being told, “You should see this or you should see that.
” They will decide and they will generate the interest themselves. And I think what happened with both of our movies was a case in point of that, that the audience decided, you know, that this was correct and this was right. – I think they were also really excited by the filmmakers. – I think you’re right, yeah.
I think you’re right. – People were like itching for the next Chris Nolan film and itching for the next Greta Gerwig film. – Yes. – To get them at the same time was, you know, exciting. – Quantum mechanics says it’s both. How can it be both? – It can’t. – It can’t. But it is. It’s paradoxical, and yet it works.
– Because I’m a fan of yours, I have watched a lot of your things on the internet on YouTube, and there’s kind of like, it’s out there on the internet that you’re not that aware of memes and things like that. (Cillian laughing) First of all, is that true? And second of all, if that is true, were you even aware of the Barbenheimer, like, phenomenon? Or were you just blissfully unaware because you use a dial-up phone or something? – No, I have teenage boys.
I have two teenage boys, so they keep doing this. So, and I do know what a meme is, Now I know that there are memes about me not knowing what a meme is. – It’s a great meme. – But I- – It’s like inception of memes, a meme within a meme. – It is a- (Margot and Cillian laughing) I genuinely at the time did not know.
But people forget that was- – A while ago. – It was a long time ago. – Yeah, long time ago, yeah. – You know? – I might not have known back then what a meme is. – No, and I mean- – I’m not that tech savvy. – Exactly, and I think children started that stuff, right, so- – Yeah. – So it wasn’t necessarily, but now that it’s become this sort of like the meme that’s eating itself- (Margot laughing) I am aware, but it’s mostly because of people either sending it to me or showing, saying, “Look, you gotta look at this.”
– Yeah, yeah. – But I do think that- – Did you see any of the Barbenheimer fan art? – I mean it was impossible to- – Wasn’t there some great ones? – Avoid any of that stuff? Which is- – People are so clever with the things they come up with. – It was incredible, and it was self-generated. Do you know what I mean? – I know.
People kept asking me, they’re like, “So, are the studio’s talking, “the studio, each department, “marketing department’s talking to each other.” And I was like, “No, this is the world doing this.” “This is-” – The world. – “This is not a part of the marketing campaign. “This is just happening.” – And I think it’s, it happened because, like both movies were good.
– Yeah, yeah. – That’s the thing. And there was a sort of a diversity offered by both movies. In fact, that summer there was a huge diversity of stuff in the cinema. And like, I think it just connected in a way that you or I or the studios or anybody could never have particularly, we could never- – You can’t force that.
– Have predicted, no – We can’t orchestrate that. – No, and it may never happen again. – I know. – And it was- – I mean, it was wild seeing that many people going into the movies. – Yeah. – Wild. Did you go to the movie? – Did you go to see “Oppenheimer” or did go see “Barbie?” – Yeah, like do you sneak out and see like what the vibe is? I mean, we were going around in cinemas checking like levels and things like that.
– Yeah, well, I guess you’re a producer, and you gotta do that. I try to avoid lookin’ at myself. I struggle with it. – Isn’t the mask the best thing? – [Cillian] The what? Oh yes. – Wear a mask everywhere. – Yes, that is- – And I can go everywhere again. It’s so good. – But I wouldn’t volunteer to go in to see myself in the- – No, no, no.
– But I do know that Chris and Emma, Chris Nolan and Emma Thomas, his wife, producer, I think they were going, they were sneaking into- – Checking how it’s- – Yeah. But then like the fact that people were going dressed up as Barbie or dressed up as Oppenheimer to go and see the movies multiple times, it’s kinda so flattering and, you know, kind of overwhelming, and so great for cinema.
– Totally. – Yeah. Like being the producer and being the star of the movie, how did you manage to kind of, I guess, split those responsibilities? Or was that difficult? Or were you always gonna play Barbie? – I wasn’t always gonna… Not necessarily. You know, even when we got the property and sat with Mattel, I said, you know, they were like, “Will you play Barbie?” – Yeah.
– I said, “No, that’s up to the filmmaker.” So it’s, you know, “I want to go after Greta Gerwig, “and she should cast whoever she wants, and-” – Yeah. – “If that’s not me, “like that’s okay.” And I said that to Greta as well. I was like, “You write the script that you wanna write. “You and Noah write it. “And if you think I’m the right actor for it, great.
“And if you don’t like, let’s go get the best actor for it.” – Cool. – I really didn’t, I didn’t mind. I really wanted to produce it. So I really wanted to make this. It wasn’t until I read the script that I was like, “Oh I have to play it. – Yeah. – And she’d written it like Barbie Margot, so- – Right.
– She made it pretty clear, like, no, I want you to play this role. But you’ve done five movies with Christopher Nolan now, right? – This is six, actually. – Six, really? – Uh, huh, yeah. – So you like the guy. (Cillian laughing) Big fan. – It seems to work. You know, I mean this is the first time playing a proper lead role for him. They’d always been supporting parts over the years.
It’s 20 years we’re working together. – Has your relationship changed or evolved in that time? – I mean, I think that it’s probably gotten, you know, richer, I think. You know, I was certainly just kind of startin’ off back then, or starting to work properly in film, and he had just made the leap, you know, from making independent films into making big studio movies.
And he was taking over this franchise for the first time with “Batman Begins,” and obviously just nailed it. But I think he’s refining and refining his kind of vision and how the types of stories he wants to tell and how he wants to present them. You know, like moving into IMAX, and you know, he was the first director to do that.
– When did he start shooting always in the large format? – I think it was “Dark Knight.” I think that opening sequence at the beginning. I think that’s an IMAX. You remember when Heath breaks into the bank and all that? I think that’s in IMAX. I think that’s the, I could be wrong, but I think that’s one of the first times that he started using it.
But like in Oppenheimer, we were using it almost all of the time. – Yeah. – And they come at you. It’s like, a- – And with the film. I mean those cameras must be so heavy. – Yeah, yeah. – So loud. – So loud, so heavy. Have you worked with them? With IMAX? – No. But I know he shoots on IMAX and always on film.
– Yeah. – So I can imagine like, to get more than a four-minute take, those mags must be massive. – They’re huge. And our amazing DP- – Hoyte. – Hoyte was like, carries them everywhere. Like I remember in “Dunkirk” we’d be like on a boat in the middle of the ocean, and Hoyte would have the thing on his shoulder, and it’s like these beautifully composed shots.
But to answer your question, I don’t know. I suppose as you get older, you just get a bit more confident in the sort of stories you want to tell. And I suppose, you know, I’ve learned a huge amount from working with Chris in terms of focus and rigor and dedication. And, I think we have similar tastes, and I think he may have, you know, helped form my, kind of my tastes.
But before I even worked with him, the movies that he had made prior to “Batman Begins” I was a fan of, and I really just wanted to, you know, meet him and- – Yeah. – That happens a lot, isn’t it? Like you were fans of directors, and then you get to meet them, and next thing you’re working with them, and it’s kinda nuts, ’cause you were at home watching their- – I know. – Movies when you were a kid.
– Well, I don’t know if that happens a lot, but when it does happen, it’s like magic. – This is true. – Amazing. – I’m sure that’s happened to you. – I’ve like reached out to people I really wanna work. – Yeah, I’ve done that. Written letters. – Write letters, and yeah. The letter thing does work, I have to say.
– It does. – I mean, sometimes it doesn’t, but sometimes it does. – People appreciate a handwritten letter that you’ve sat down to write. – Yeah. – I believe in that. – Yeah. I feel like I don’t like playing lead roles, ’cause I feel like you have more responsibility, and like- – Yeah. – As a supporting role you can kinda be a little more like wild and- – Yeah. – I don’t know.
Like I avoid playing lead roles. – Really? – I haven’t done it that much. Not where like my character’s the name of the movie. – Yeah. – Only “I, Tonya” have I done that really? Did you feel that sense of like, oh, I have to carry the weight of this story because I am playing Oppenheimer, and the movie is “Oppenheimer”? Or did you approach it, did it feel just the same as when you’ve worked with him in other instances? – No, it did feel different.
Like, he called me up out of the blue ’cause he’s never, like, I didn’t even know he was writing it. So he called me up out of the blue. Or Emma Thomas, his wife, the producer, she called me ’cause Chris doesn’t have a phone. So she put me on to Chris, and he said in his, you know, very understated British way, you know, “I’m just making this movie about Oppenheimer, I’d like you to play the part.
” And so it was like wham outta nowhere. Luckily I was unemployed at the time. I just finished somethin’ and I wasn’t doin’ anythin’. But I did realize then that it was different to the other jobs I’d done with him, because it was the story of Oppenheimer’s life. And then when he eventually gave me the script, it was written in the first person, which I’d never read before.
And so I kind of- – The script was written in the first person? – Yes. – Like the big print would be like, “I’m gonna put the cup down and look towards the door.” – Exactly, exactly. – That’s interesting. – Which I’d never read before. And so it was very clear that he wanted it to be truly subjective storytelling, you know? And that did add to the feeling of, like, oh, fuck, this is a big, big, biggie.
But then I knew as well that he was gonna people it with all these extraordinary actors. And the thing about all those roles is they’re all characters of significant consequence. You know, they’re very consequential characters, in history and in the movie. You know, we put all these extraordinary actors in the- – Casting was insane.
– Yeah, it was bonkers. Every time he would tell me, “Oh, you know, Gary Oldman’s gonna pop in. “And you know, we got down Downey to play Strauss.” But I suppose what I’m trying to say is that you felt very, very supported and secure in that. – Yeah. – You know, ’cause you knew- – Share the burden a little bit with amazing cast. – Completely, yeah.
It felt lovely, and I think I’ve developed a shorthand with Chris over the years. Like, we do understand each other. I think we share a similar kind of taste or approach to storytelling. He’s a master. He’s a master filmmaker. – Why do you love working with him and why do you think he loves working with you? – You’ll have to ask him- – I know you’re gonna have to – tThe second part.
– Be really humble, and be like, “I don’t know. “Why does he like me? “I can’t understand it. – I don’t know, I mean with- – Take a guess. – With Chris, you see, it’s just the work. Like, he’s not interested in anything else other than the work and the filmmaking, and he is incredibly focused and it’s incredibly rigorous.
– Is it true he wears a suit every day to set? – He does wear very similar attire every day. But, you know, the reason I think that is, I think it makes sense to me is that it’s one, you know, as a director, you have so many decisions. – Greta wore a boiler suit every day. – Every day. – She had five. A different one for every day of the week.
She was like, “It’s one piece of clothing. “It’s got pockets so I can put my notebook and pens, “all that.” – Yeah. – And she was like, “It’s a decision I don’t have to make.” – Yeah. – “And I have to make a thousand today.” – You take that off the board, yeah. – And then while we were shooting, I went to the Churchill War Museum and saw that he, Winston Churchill did the same thing.
He had like this boiler suit. – There you go. – And I was like, Greta. – It makes a lotta sense. – It makes total sense. – And I imagine if she wore something different on set, it would freak you out. I mean if- – No, totally. – Chris came in a, I don’t know- – Hawaiian shirt. – It would freak me out.
(Margot and Cillian laughing) I wouldn’t be able to concentrate. And I don’t think the crew would. – Yeah. – So, I think it’s a sensible choice, actually. – And prepping for the role, what’s your prep process like? – I mean, I don’t know about you, but I’ll take as much as I can get. – [Margot] Yeah. – With this one, it was six months from when he called me to when we started shooting.
And I would’ve taken another six months if I coulda got it. – When he called you and said, “Movie about Oppenheimer,” were you like, “Gotcha”? Or were you like, “Who’s that?” (Cillian laughing) – I should go get a book. I know nothing about it. – I knew kind of very basic, you know, Wikipedia level. Now I knew about the Trinity tests, and I knew about, you know, the Manhattan Project, and then obviously what happened in ’45.
But like, I didn’t know what happened afterwards or anything like that. – Yeah, yeah. So you read a lot to prep? What else do you do? – Like walk around my basement talking to myself. (Cillian laughing) – Really? – Yeah. – Do you record yourself? – I do sometimes, do you? – No, only if I’m doing dialect stuff.
– Yeah. – But I prep like a psychopath as well. – Yeah, it’s the only way, isn’t it? – I’ll prep, like, as long as I possibly can. I remember I started prepping one role and then COVID happened. And so I ended up prepping the one role for like a year. And it was, I was like losing my mind by the end of it. My husband walked in, and I was like making like weird masks and stuff, and I was like covered in paint.
He’s like, “What are doing?” And I was like, “I think I’ve gone too far “with this character.” (Cillian laughing) We need this to end. I need to get on set. – It’s the only way, though. I think this the only- – Because then I can walk on set and just be like totally free. – Yeah. – But if I hadn’t prepped, like I’d be so terrified.
Like when I hear some other actors, like look at their script and there’s nothing written on it. And I’m like, I’d be so terrified if I didn’t have like a bazillion notes and thoughts. – Yeah. – Then I’d be having all those thoughts on set as opposed to just like- – Exactly, and I think, you know, when you get on set time is your most important commodity, as you know.
And the last thing you wanna be doing is- – Finding it. – Figuring it out. – I know. – Every second counts, so you wanna do all the figuring out- – Yeah. – Before, and then park it. You know? – Yeah. – And Chris is the king of prep, and you know, I don’t know if, if Greta’s the same, but he has like, you know, crew that he works with forever and HOVs that he’s worked with forever.
So, they know how he works, and he preps with those guys for a long, long time. And, so when we come on set, it’s fast. – Like go time. – Yeah. – Yeah. – And it’s really, really fast. And he just kind of expects excellence from everyone. – I love that. – Yeah. Which I think all the best ones do. – Yeah.
– And I think everyone gets that. It’s an unspoken thing, right? – Yeah. – I thought if I could find a way to combine physics and New Mexico my life would be perfect. (Oppenheimer chuckling) – And tell me about casting your movie, then. What was your kind of goal or plan when you were casting it? What was your- – I mean, most people’s names were written into the script.
Oh really? – Like I was Barbie Margot. And it said Ken Ryan Gosling. – Wow. – Like everyone, you know, Greta kinda manifested the cast she got. Also, everyone was so keen to do it. – [Cillian] Yeah. – And a lotta people signed on to do like a long movie where they’ve got a pretty small role, and- – Yeah.
– Agents were like, “Why would we let our client be busy for this long “and for this much screen time?” But, you know, their clients would be like, “No, I wanna do it. “I wanna work with these people, “and I wanna work with Greta.” And we just said from the start, like, let’s make a massive dance party, invite everyone. And it- – Yeah.
– It was like that on set. Like it was so fun. Every day was so fun. And we’d be playing music and we would dance in the… Like we’d, crew, cast, everyone, would like dance in the morning. – Really? – Just to like- – Awww. – Get everyone… You know, it was so funny, because we’re shooting at Leavesden, other films, like the “Fast” movie, like “Fast 10” or whatever, they’d like come over in their like SWAT gear, kinda be like, “What’s going on in here?” And we’re like, “It’s Barbieland, come in.
” – Wow. – You know, people were just like gravitating towards the set because they… And you know, our actors, everyone would come in on days that they weren’t even working, ’cause- – Just to hang out. – Just to hang. ’cause it was so fun. Like you just wanted to be there with everyone, and it was such a good group.
– I think you can kind of feel that in the movie. – Yeah. – I do think that that stuff transfers. – Definitely. – Yeah. – And I think it all trickles down from the top. Like whatever- – Yeah. – Mood the director sets. – Yeah. – It’s like, it seeps into everything. And Greta just sets like the most like joyful space. – Yeah.
– I mean I can’t speak to her other sets. I wasn’t on them, but I mean, she’s so joyful and supportive and exciting, and just, she’s just brilliant, and you can feel that. And I don’t know, I always think of it like, it’s like when little kids can sense that their parents are like angry or frustrated. Even if like a parent’s like, “I’m fine,” but they’re slamming the dishes, you know, like a kid’s gonna be like a little bit like on edge.
Even if they don’t understand it, they’re like, you know? – Yeah. – That happens on a film set. Like I’ve seen that happen- – Yeah. – Where like you can just feel everyone tensing, ’cause you know your director, or someone else in a position of, you know, importance is giving that vibe, and everyone’s suddenly like a little apprehensive, and that’s- – Yeah.
– And we just did not need that- – Yeah, it has to come- – Vibe for a Barbie set. – It has to come from the top, doesn’t it? – Maybe that would work for some movies, but that wasn’t gonna work for- – Yeah, I don’t enjoy that. – [Margot] It’s just not funny, but, like- – You can’t go to work like… I don’t know, if you’re gonna be vulnerable, I feel like you need a place that’s trusting and- – Yeah. – Caring.
– Yeah. Going back to the prep question. – [Cillian] Yes. – Do you work with an acting coach or a dialect coach or like movement coach or do any of that kind of stuff? Or did you train to be an actor? – No, no, didn’t train to be an actor. No, kind of started doing theater when I was 20. – Yeah. – And then did an awful lot of theater for like four years kind of exclusively.
And then started gettin’ little parts in movies. But I did use a dialect coach on this one, because the voice was so specific. – Yeah. – Now we weren’t trying to do an impression. I can’t really. It’s not in my wheelhouse to do impressions. I don’t have that skill. And you know, with accents, for me it takes…
It’s like going to the gym for your mouth. You know what I mean? It takes a long time. – Australian mouths are like the laziest, right? – (laughing) Really? – It’s literally like a gym workout. – But you guys do Americans so brilliantly always. – Well, that’s ’cause we have to like build the muscles. Well you have to like, yeah, build the muscles in your mouth to do an American accent.
– Really? I just thought it might be closer in, or kind of timbre, tone, or vowel sounds. – No, I think we also, ’cause we grow up watching so many American things. – Same in Ireland. – Australians, like between our soft palate and hard palate, we’ve got one centimeter of space. Americans have three. – Huh. – So just an American mouth just has more space.
– Oh wow. – And then because of that, like we use our lips more and our tongues are lazy. And so when you’re doing an accent, you’re building that muscle and creating that space. That’s why I think it would be harder to be American doing an Australian accent, ’cause I don’t know how you’d have all that space and have all that muscularity in your mouth and suddenly like, make it weak and small. – Yeah.
– Like I don’t know. That would be so hard. – Aussies always do brilliant American, I think. – That’s good. I love it when I hear that we’ve got a good rep. – Well, you certainly do with me. – The Irish have a great rep. – Yeah, we’re not bad at it. But what I was trying to do with Oppenheimer is the very, like no one talks like it anymore.
You know, kind of, you know, that oldie, like Orson Wells or like Mr. Rogers, or like who else talked like that? And so yeah, anyway, you don’t hear it anymore. – I mean it wasn’t even that many decades ago- – No. – That people really did speak like that. And every time I’m researching an accent I’m like, surely it wasn’t that, you know, exaggerated.
– Yeah. – And then you hear a recording, and you’re like, no- – It was. – Wow, we really have gotten so lazy. – We really have. And I think it’s become so kind of homogenized, because of- – Yeah. – This connectivity in the world. – Yeah. – People sound quite similar. – Yeah. – In different parts of the world, don’t they? – Did you have access to a lot of, you know, archival footage in order to replicate the mannerisms or physicality of Oppenheimer? – Yes, there’s a lot of stuff online, like just on YouTube. – Mm.
God, I love YouTube. – Love a bit of YouTube. – It’s like my biggest tool for any character. – You just disappear down there, can’t ya? – Yeah. – The problem with footage of him was mostly him giving lectures. So it was quite performative, you know? It wasn’t- – Mm, the real him. – Yeah. So I used that a little bit, but we had to kind of imagine how he would be, you know, with his wife or with his colleagues and stuff like that.
That we had to kinda make up. – Did you have like a thing that would get you into him? You know what I mean? Like- – Yeah, I do. Physically there was loads of pictures of him, and he always stood with his hand on his hip, and you see all these pictures. ‘Cause he was such a slight man, but he always stood with this very kind of jaunty angle with his hand on his hip.
And so I nicked that pretty quick early as a sort of a physical thing. And Chris Nolan kept sending me pictures of David Bowie. You know, like in his sort of- – Mm. – Thin White Duke era. – Yeah. – With the big Voluminous trousers, yeah. – I see that. Wow. – So we kinda stole that a little bit. – Chances are near zero.
– Near zero? – What do you want with theory alone? – Zero. – And how about you, what was your process then? ‘Cause it’s such a difficult character to… It’s this kind of 20th century iconic, not a real person. – Yeah, it was. – How did you figure it out? – It was so weird prepping Barbie as a character. ‘Cause it was like all my usual tools didn’t apply for this character. – Yeah.
– So I usually, like, I have the things that I do, and I work with an acting coach, and I work with a dialect coach, and I work with a movement coach, and I read everything, and I watch all the things. And when it’s a real-life person or whatever, it’s the things that you were talking about. If it’s a made up person, whatever.
I rely on animal work a lot. And I was, you know, maybe like 45 minutes into pretending to be a flamingo or whatever. And I was suddenly like- (Cillian laughing) It’s not working. The animal isn’t helping me with Barbie. I was like, oh God, I dunno how to find her. And, yeah, it was like, normally I do a couple, like I have a couple of things and I normally do.
– Okay. – So I make up childhood memories. So I think of like, you know, say, half a dozen core childhood memories. – Uh-huh. – And that helps me explain why they do the things they do in the script. – Right. – So like, you know, this is the first time they were extremely humiliated in a public setting, or this is the first time they felt betrayed or like whatever.
But I couldn’t do that for her because she- – Well, yeah. – Just was invented out of a vacuum and lived in a… You know, like, so all the things I normally did didn’t work. The animal work didn’t work. Childhood memories didn’t work. Even the accent wasn’t something to cling onto. Normally I’m like- – Yeah.
– What accent are we doing? So they grew up there and what time and dah dah, dah. And even that, it was like, no, I should be from nowhere, but kinda general. But, you know, so I was really struggling. It was like she was so smooth and shiny. I had like nothing to grab onto. – Yeah. – And I was like, “I don’t know where you are.” Even though she was written beautifully in the script.
Anyways, I went to Greta and I was like, “Help me. “I don’t know where to start with this character.” And she was like, “Okay, what are you scared of?” And I was like, “I don’t want her to seem dumb and ditzy, “but she’s also not meant to know anything.” – Yeah. – She’s meant to be completely naive and ignorant.
And Greta found this episode on “This American Life” podcast where it was a woman who doesn’t or can’t introspect, like, doesn’t have the voice in her head. – Oh wow. – That’s like constantly narrating life. – Yeah. – The way we all do. And so that was like an instance where I was like, oh. – Wow. – Oh, so she doesn’t have that voice.
And this woman’s like, you know, got a PhD and is extremely smart, but just doesn’t have that internal monologue. – Is she happy? – Yeah, totally. And- – Is she happier, do you think? – Oh, god, I wondered about that. You know, and the interviewer was asking her like, “So if you’re like looking out a window?” She’s like, “I’m just looking out a window.
” She’s like, it didn’t even occur to me that I didn’t introspect. – Wow. – Until one day I suddenly realized as a grown woman that my parents were one day gonna die. – Huh. – And she was like inconsolable, you know- – Yeah. – Thinking that, and her boyfriend was like, “What’s wrong?” She’s like, “My parents are gonna die one day.
” And he was like, “Had you not thought about that before?” She was like, “No.” She kinda thinks exactly what’s in front of her. Like a spotlight to what exactly is in front of her at the time. – Well, that’s perfect, right? – Yeah, it was really interesting. – Yeah. – So things like that, I was like, wow. And then Greta’s like, you know, references for, ”
Okay, I want the cadence of your speech to be like…” We did this thing called Movie Church. So every Sunday morning we would invite all the cast and crew, whoever wanted to come to the Notting Hill Electric. – Oh cool, cinema, yeah. – Cinema, which is such a good cinema. – Yeah. – And watch a movie that was somehow related to Barbie. – Like what, for example? – So like for example, we’d watch “His Girl Friday,” ’cause Greta would be like, “I want all the Barbies at the dance party “to have that rhythm, like, when they speak.
“Like there it should be like, da da da da da da da da.” It’s funny, Greta, sometimes she, I think she uses this to find the comedy in scenes, too. She doesn’t look at the monitor. Like she closes her eyes. – Listens. – And she just listens- – To the rhythm. – To a scene. – Yeah. – She’s really tuned into like the rhythm.
– Yeah. – Which is really interesting. But then there might be a reference, like we’d watch “The Red Shoes-” – Oh yeah. – Because we’re coming up with the lot for the camera, like the color chart, you know, the IB tech. We called it Techno Barbie, ’cause we wanted it to look like that kind of like really poppy, saturated 50s sound soundstage musical.
Or we’d watch “2001: Space Odyssey,” ’cause it’s a reference- – Yeah. – Gosh, we watched so many movies. – What a nice thing to do. – It was the best. It was so fun. (Barbies cheering) (“Dance the Night”) Coming up with the character was weirdly difficult. And I wouldn’t think playing a Barbie would be difficult.
But then I realized I had nothing to grab onto, and it did take me a second. But I did know, and it was evident in the script, that I wanted there to be an evolution between how she’s at the beginning and who she is- – Yeah. – At the end. At the beginning, she is a doll, and she doesn’t introspect, and she’s never experienced something like shame.
And she’s never experienced, you know, there’s so many things she hasn’t ever experienced. – Yeah. – And so she’s certain. She just says everything with absolute certainty. – Yeah. (laughing) – And she moves with absolute certainty. – Yeah. – She’s wide and open to the world, ’cause why wouldn’t you be? There’s nothing bad.
There’s no pain, there’s nothing bad. You know, she can say happily to Ken, like, “You can go now, I don’t want you here. “Like, I wanna see my friends. “It’s my house, not yours.” – Yeah, yeah. – Bye, like- (Cillian laughing) And it can be like that. And then towards the middle it starts getting shaky and wobbly and- – Yeah. – Fragile and vulnerable.
And by the end, she is human. She’s become human before she’s even realized to ask for that. – Uh-huh. – And so we did a couple things. You know, wigs got smaller, less hair- – Oh wow. – More realistic. Costumes got less structured. Geometric patterns or dots or whatever turned into like florals or pastels. Less certain colors.
Just less certainty, really. – Yeah. – To mirror like what that evolution of life would be, you know? – Very subtly, subliminally. – Yeah, and by the end I wanted people to kind of weirdly be thinking like, oh, I feel like I’m just watching Margot, weirdly, as opposed to like- – Yeah, yeah. – The character I thought I saw at the beginning.
– [Cillian] Yeah. – So I don’t know if it had that effect, but that’s what we were trying to accomplish. And then weirdly I was kind of playing my mom a little bit. – Really? – Yeah. Because my mom is so pure. Like she’s so, I don’t know. Maybe you’ll meet her one day. It’ll make sense. But it was funny, one day on set, I was like a little bit conscious that I was doing that, but one day on set, my mom was visiting, and Greta like turned to me, and she was like, “Oh my God, you’re playing your mom, aren’t you?”
And I was like, “Yeah, like a little bit, yeah.” – And what does she think of the movie? – She loved it, yeah. Do you know what though, afterwards, I was like, “Mom, did you like that? “Did you like that line where Ruth says, “‘Us mothers stand still “‘so that our daughters can see how far they’ve gone.'” – Uh-huh.
– I was like, “Did that make you cry?” And she was like, “No.” (Cillian laughing) And I was like, “Oh really?” She was like, “I thought it was “a very well written line, though.” I was like- (Cillian laughing) Oh, I’m so angry that didn’t make you… What did your parents think of Oppenheimer? – Oh. – Do they like praise you or try to keep you down to earth, and like do that thing that your family does where they’re like keeping your feet on the ground? – They are very proud, yeah, by it all.
I really wanted them to see it, you know, like with an audience in the cinema. I think they saw it in Paris, and, yeah, they were a little, it’s a little, the movie’s a little overwhelming, you know? – Do you know how I saw it? – No. – I was in a cinema, and it was a really hot day in London, and the AC stopped working.
– Oh no. – (laughing) So- – Oh no, – It was actually, it was almost like we’re having a 4D experience. – (laughing) It was like Chris designed it. – ‘Cause it was like literally like getting hotter and hotter, and they’re building the bomb. And by the time the bomb was going off, I was like literally dripping with sweat with everyone else in here.
It was so hot. And it- – Oh, that’s excellent. – I’m so proud. So proud of what you have accomplished. – We should talk about the costumes. – Costumes. – So you’re clearly still not sick of pink, then? (Cillian laughing) – No, I’m not. – Never. – I’m not done with pink yet. Yeah, the costumes were, I mean, pink, it’s, you just can’t have a Barbie movie without the color pink. – Obviously.
– And everyone really got on board with that. Like, I’d make a, on Wednesdays We Wear Pink day. – Oh really? – Do you know that reference from “Mean Girls”? – I had forgotten that reference. – On Wednesdays, they wear pink. – Okay. – And so if you didn’t wear pink on set, you got a fine. And then I’d donate it to charity.
(Cillian laughing) And honestly, people leaned in. Like, I was like, “You can wear pink socks, that’s enough.” And people are like, “Mmm, no, I’m happy to like, you know.” It’s always like the guys I feel like that are like, “Oh, finally. “Finally I have permission to wear pink and get dressed up.” – Every Wednesday? – Every Wednesday.
– How long did you shoot for? – Quite a long time. – Okay. – How many days was it in the end? – That’s a lot of- – I mean it was at least five months or something. – It’s a lot of pink additions to- – I have so much pink in my wardrobe now. – I’m sure you have. – I wasn’t really a pink girl before, but, you know, leaning into it. But the costumes were amazing, and there were so many.
Like Jacqueline Durran, Greta had worked with before, is extraordinary in her references. You know, there was meant to be a bit of an evolution through the decades as well. Like starting in the 50s when Barbie was created, and then it kinda morphed into 60s and 70s, 80s. By the time we’re on the boardwalk, we’re wearing like neon, kinda like 80s, 90s, and then gets a bit early noughties, and the modern day.
So yeah, it was really, it was clever and it was fun, and everyone would just squeal every day we’d get to set and see what each other are wearing and be like, “Ah, you look amazing.” – And you guys- – And like I said, the guys, I think the guys, like our Kens, loved it more than anything. – They really seemed to get into it.
(laughing) – It would get crazier and crazier until like, until Ryan would be like, “I think I need a mink, “and I need a…” You know, it would just get insane. – But you actually built the sets. – Yeah. – For real, yeah. – Yeah, it was incredible. We built that whole cul-de-sac. The dream houses are like- – Yeah. – Several stories high.
Everything’s like hand painted, all the backdrops hand painted. We made all of Barbieland in miniature, filmed the miniatures. Yeah, everything was very tactile. And the transportation sequence, it’s all that. It’s like practical and like a diorama, and there’s like- – Wow. – You know, literally people like holding a rod with a butterfly- – Oh, I love that. – Dangling off it.
And, you know, everything was just, the handmade quality of it was so intrinsic to the movie anyway, ’cause it’s meant to be a toyetic world. – Yeah. – It’s meant to be toys, you should feel like you could reach in and grab it all. – But it does make a difference, I think. – Yeah. – I mean, I don’t know if the audience knows on a kind of a- – Yeah. – A conscious level.
– Yeah. – But I really believe that they experience on a subliminal level that this is- – I agree. – Happening in camera. – I agree, and I know Chris Nolan definitely lives by the same rules of like, everything is in camera- – Totally. – Everything’s practical. And I think what CGI can do, what VFX can do, is like incredible, and as a tool- – Yeah.
– To complement- – Yes. – Work it’s amazing. But when it’s relied on too heavily, there’s something about that like infinite- – Yeah. – Quality to like looking at something that’s just like could go on forever where you… I don’t know, I find… I get detached. I’m kinda like, something in me can sense that it’s not real, and so I don’t really care.
I don’t really care if that thing explodes or that building falls down, because it’s not real. Like you just know when it’s not real. – Yeah, I think we do know. I think definitely we’re kind of inure to it at this stage. And Oppenheimer, there was no set builds. It was all real locations. Every single location was the actual place.
A lot of it was- – Oh wow. – Like Oppenheimer’s house where we shot in New Mexico was actually where he- – Really? – He lived. Yeah, with Kitty, so when- – Oh wow. – Myself and Emily were filming in there, you know- – How is Emily? – She is astonishing- – I love her so much. – In the movie. I think there’s just like, she can do anything, Emily.
It’s kind of- – I would watch her in anything. – I don’t need to hear, I don’t need a log line. I don’t need a title. If I see she’s in it, I’m like, I’m in. I’m gonna love it. She’s so charming. – Mind blowing. – Yeah. – But yeah, so you shot in New Mexico. Where else? – Yeah, and I think you can feel the kind of, this sounds kind of like cliche or hokey or something, but I feel like you can feel the vibrations in the room.
I feel like they transfer to the character. I feel like we then have a extra level of connection or respect for the environment or for the characters. Particularly if they’re real life characters that actually lived there. – Yeah, yeah. – So yeah, and we shot in Oppenheimer’s office in Princeton, which was right next to Einstein’s office, in the real location. – Wow.
– And there was many of those instances where you feel, you kind of, you know, it’s goosebumps, you know? Like I’m not a superstitious person or anything like that, but I- – No, you feel the vibes. – You feel it. – Yeah. – Chris wanted that. – Yeah. – And for example, the last sequence in the movie, you know, well they flash backwards and forwards to it, but you know the whole big hearing at the end that was in this horrible, shitty little bureaucratic tiny room somewhere outside of LA, and we were all, and it was really hot,
and we were all of us stuffed at this room. With this huge IMAX camera. You know, we could have easily built that in a big stage and pulled away the walls, but Chris wanted it to feel like claustrophobic. – Yeah. – You know, sort of awful feeling that you would’ve had in one of those rooms. And they deliberately wanted to put him in a room like that to make him feel like he was worthless and that it was kind of meaningless and to demean him.
– Wow. – And it worked. – Can I ask something off topic? – Sure. – In my opinion, there are two kinds of people in this world. There are the people who are obsessed with “Peaky Blinders.” (Cillian laughing) And then there’s the people who haven’t seen “Peaky Blinders.” – Right. – I obviously sit in the first category.
(Cillian laughing) So can we please talk about Tommy fuckin’ Shelby for just like one minute? (Cillian laughing) – Sure, if you like, yeah. – What was it like? – Oh- – I mean that was years and years of your life. – Yeah, it’s like 10. That was also 10-year adventure. We sh started shooting at the end of 2012.
– That’s so crazy. – Yeah. – I love the song that plays at the very end of the last season. – Oh yeah. – “All the Tired Horses.” – Yeah, Lisa O’Neill. – I love that song so much. – Yeah. – It’s on my cry playlist. Like if I need to cry on set. – Yeah. (laughing) It was a Dylan song, and she took it and just like- – It’s so good. – Yeah.
– Love it. – She’s special. – Is there gonna be a spinoff movie? – I mean, I’m open to the idea. – Really? You know, I’ve always thought that if there’s more story to tell- – Of course there’s no story to tell. – Well, we’ll see, I mean- – You rode off on a horse. Like what now? (Cillian laughing) – Who knows, I guess- – Please do it, please.
– Well that’s very kind of you to say. I mean, I’m totally open to the idea, but, you know, I also do think it was a kind of perfect- – I know. – Six seasons. – I know. – And we managed- – You don’t wanna wreck it. – Well it’s kind of sometimes hard to kinda move into the film format, and I do like the ambiguity of the ending.
– I know. – But I’m always open to like a great script. You know, who wouldn’t be? Who wouldn’t be? – It’s so good. – Oh, thanks- – Do people just come up to you all the time. – A lot, yeah, a lot. – And say “Tommy Fuckin’ Shelby.” – They do, yeah, yeah. – And have you lost a lung smoking all those cigarettes? – It wasn’t great.
But then of course I did Oppenheimer, and it’s like a pipe and fags- – I literally thought that I was watching it. I was like, we need to get him to a doctor. – Yeah. – He’s smokin’. He’s smoked so many cigarettes on screen. – The thing about those- – The herbals. – Now they have a warning on the herbals as well.
– Do they? – Yeah, so you can’t win. – Shit. – You know? So if people shout at me, “Tommy Shelby,” is it inevitable that people… I would imagine they shout at you, but they might go, “Hey Barbie,” or whatever. Is that what happens? – A lot of “Hi, Barbies.” Yeah. – A lot of, yeah. It’s funny ’cause the waving thing wasn’t that big of a thing, and then on set it just got bigger and more ridiculous- – Okay- – To the point where it was like the waving was like so…
Something about Barbie, like she needs to be so earnest that she’s almost a dork. And she’s like, but you’re kinda like, aww, but I still like you. – Yeah. – And somehow waving really, like- (Cillian laughing) Really just, really should just sum that up. And so we just kept doing it and doing it. And then Greta really made a meal out of the Hi Barbie, Hi Barbie, Hi Ken, Hi Ken, hi, you know that whole bit.
And then, Hi, Alan. And yeah, now people on the street say, “Hi Barbie” a lot. – Probably- – I like it. I’d rather people be shouting that at me than other things. – This is true. – I’ll take it. – [Cillian] For the rest of your life. – For the rest of my life. And tell me, speaking of that, do you feel like there’s a sequel in the works? If you’re asking me about a Peaky movie- – You’re allowed to ask that.
‘Cause I did ask you the thing. Same thing that you, I’m like, we put everything into that movie- – Yeah. – And it’s so good. – Yeah. – That I’m like, oh no. And I was also so proud of the fact that it wasn’t like an, sorry, that it was an original. It wasn’t a sequel- – Yeah. – Or a prequel or a remake, which is getting rarer and rarer these days.
And your movie, too, is original. And that’s amazing that we both got these big theatrical opportunities for original ideas. – Yeah. – That part of me almost, I’m like, oh no, if we do a “Barbie 2” then we just… I don’t know. – Yeah. – But at the same time I would do anything to be back on the set. – Yeah.
– And I’d do anything to be on set with Greta again and Ryan again and playing Barbie again. Like playing Barbie is the best. It’s just so joyful. So, again, if it was- – So, you’re not saying- – So it’s not no. – Yeah. – Not, no. – Yeah. – But also, it would take a lot for it to be a… – Yeah, to live up to what you guys did, yeah. – Yeah, to live up to it.
Yeah. – Yeah. – Hi, Barbie. – Hi, Barbie. – Hi, Barbie. – Hi, Barbie. – Hi, Barbie. – Hi, Barbie. – Hi, Ken. – Hi, Barbie. – Hi, Ken. – Hi, Barbie. – Obviously I’ve now revealed that I am a big fan of yours, not just “Peaky Blinders.” I also love your sleep story on the Calm app. – Oh, thank you. – Just everything you’ve done, really.
– Well, likewise. – I mean, it is crazy that after all this, this is literally the first time I’m ever meeting you, so. – Yeah, likewise. – It’s been nice- – Very formal setting. – I know, I know. (Cillian laughing) – Well, nice to chat to you, Margot. – Hopefully not for the last time. – Exactly, exactly. (upbeat relaxed music) (upbeat relaxed music)
