So, Michael Jackson. Now, you were Michael Jackson’s defense lawyer. ; Yes. ; But you were also his friend, weren’t you? ; Yes. But I knew Michael during a very, very unique and very, very tragic time. Uh, I was his lead criminal defense counsel in his criminal case. And Michael took it very hard to be charged with something that horrific.
And to have to go through that kind of a process was very, very difficult for him. So, I knew Michael during the worst chapter in his life. ; What did you think of him as a person? ; He was one of the nicest people I’ve ever met. Kind, gentle, supportive, very, very sensitive to the needs of others.
Uh, very interested in healing the world, very interested in helping disadvantaged people. He truly was one of the nicest human beings I’ve ever met. ; It sounds very cliched. ; Well, it’s very true. Michael had a desire to heal the world. He knew he had unique opportunities financially, reputationally, creatively, and he told me that he wanted to make a difference on the planet.
He wanted to make it a better place. It sounded naive and ideal a little bit, but that was Michael. He always was trying to help somebody. ; But you’ve been on the receiving end of a lot of fibs from a lot of people. You really think he was genuine? ; I do think he was genuine. I think he was a very kind person.
I think he had a troubled early life. I think he was denied a childhood. Uh I think his family realized what a genius he was at a young age and his father made him work very hard to perfect his talents and in the process I think he felt he was denied a true spontaneous childhood and wished he had had one. ; Do you think he’s remotely or could have been remotely capable of doing any of those things? ; The things he’s been accused of doing, absolutely not.
I am 100% convinced Michael never abused a child, never harmed a child, certainly never molested a child. I think this is hogwash. ; Are you on any sort of retainer at all from the Jackson estate? ; No, I’m not on any retainer at all. ; So, no one’s paying you any money to say nice things about Michael Jackson. ; No. No. I will always say he was a nice person.
He was. He was one of the nicest people I ever met. ; But you of all people know the smoke and fire argument. Is there any fire? ; There’s no fire here whatsoever. ; Sometimes, as you know, lawyers have to ignore the obvious in order to mount a defense. Would you have represented him if you thought he was a child abuser? ; Well, I have represented people in my lifetime that had strong evidence against them.
And people always say to me, will you defend someone you think is guilty? And the answer is yes, because we criminal defense lawyers fulfill two functions. Number one, we make sure that innocent people uh get their justice uh that they’re they’re exonerated. We also make the system work. I think we have the best justice system in the world.
Uh it’s far from perfect. It convicts innocent people all the time. All you have to do is look at what DNA has done. all the innocent people that have been released from prison, people serving life sentences, people facing the death penalty, people whose families are devastated by their convictions to know that this system is not perfect.
And to make this system work the best, everybody has to fight for justice. Prosecutors have to do their job, judges have to do their job, defense attorneys have to do their job. Uh, I believe in making the system work and I believe that prosecutors, police, governmental agents will be tempted to abuse their power unless they know good defense lawyers are going to expose them and fight back.
So, I believe in making the system work. Uh, I don’t just handpick cases because someone looks innocent, although I’ve had a lot of people that certainly did look innocent, for sure. But would you have represented him if you thought he was guilty? ; I would have to talk to him. I would have to find out more about the case. Uh the answer is I take criminal cases because everybody deserves a defense.
And when I got into this case, I really didn’t know what to expect. The whole world was saying he was guilty. The press everywhere was atrocious. Uh friends told me not to take the case. They said you can’t win it and the rest of your life and career will be defined by this case. Everywhere you go in the world, people will say you sent him to prison.
Um I was warned repeatedly, don’t take it. And I took the case because I believe in what I do. I believe in the criminal defense profession. I think we had do a lot more to create freedom and liberty and make the system work than people realize. So when I got into the case, I really didn’t know the evidence. I knew what he told me and and that he was absolutely innocent.
He said, “This is just ridiculous. I never did anything like this. I never could conceive of any doing anything like this.” And I found him very, very credible, but I reserved my opinion until I dug into the evidence. And the more I looked at the evidence, the more it seemed to me this man was completely innocent. you knew uh I mean you didn’t have to be a genius to figure out that with with the whole Michael Jackson phenomena.
You knew that trial was going to be a circus, didn’t you? ; It certainly looked that way. Uh I had watched a little bit of it uh on television uh the case that is um before I got in. Um and I got a pretty good feeling that this was going to be a unusual event. Uh, I wasn’t quite sure how the judge was going to handle it. I wasn’t quite sure how the local community in Santa Maria, California was going to handle it.
But I had a good idea this was going to be a wild scene. Tom, after all that time, after all those months of deliberations and witnesses and cross-examinations and and and all the obviously the preliminary work that you put in that moment in the courtroom when they said not guilty, how many times? ; 14. ; 14 times.
What was that like? That was one of the most unique, powerful, unusual experiences of my lifetime. I had lived in Santa Maria, California, which is northern Santa Barbara County, which is north of Los Angeles where I live in California. And I’d lived up there for 6 months and I’d lived like a hermit for six months.
Uh, I was well aware that the media was following me, that they were trying to film me, and that they would like to see me in a compromising position because the media was against Michael Jackson. And I was in bed in my condominium at 7:30 every night. I was up at 3:00 every day. You didn’t find me in a bar, a restaurant, a club, anywhere where you could make me look bad.
And once the media realized that my lights were out at 7:30, uh they stopped following me. But I lived like a hermit. Uh the conditions were were very stressful. Uh the family was watching the reporting and the reporting was very biased and they were very concerned that maybe things weren’t going well in the courtroom because of what they saw on television and I told them I think things are going quite well.
I can’t guarantee a result but I think they’re going quite well ; and when they went very well ; they went extremely well. I was uh very relieved. Uh that day the 14th not guilty came down. Uh he was acquitted completely. I hugged him. I looked in the courtroom and I saw all these disappointed media faces.
Uh people who wanted the drama and the story to continue and it was over. ; What did Michael Jackson say to you? ; He said, “Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Never forget it.” ; And that was it. ; That was it. Well, then I saw him at Neverland later that day. Uh in fact, there was a press conference with the worldwide media that I skipped because I wanted to be with him and his family at Neverland.
And he was very, very appreciative. He wanted to hug my staff and thank them for what they’d done for he and his family. Very powerful time. ; Did he make any comment to you about the tribulation, about the pressure that he’d been under? How he viewed that? ; You know, he didn’t have to. Uh I watched him deteriorate physically and emotionally during the trial.
He lost weight. His cheeks became more sunken in. He had a pale color to him. Um he was very very sensitive to these kinds of attacks and you have to remember what he was charged with. He was charged with masterminding a conspiracy to abduct children to falsely imprison a family and to commit extortion which he would never in a million years even dream of doing.
He was charged with taking a cancer stricken child and giving that child alcohol to prepare the child to be molested. These are horrific charges. These are ugly, nasty charges. I think it’s worse to be charged with something like this than homicide. I really do. So, he took these charges very, very I mean, he was so devastated by people trying to say he was doing this.
And he was so devastated by the prosecution trying to make him look like a criminal mastermind, which was so absurd. Uh, he deteriorated throughout the trial. He did. By by verdict day, he just looked like a shell of his old self to me. Tom, when you talk about the media being disappointed, and I I I get where you’re coming from, and and it’s it’s but it’s the whole it sort of goes hand inhand with the whole Michael Jackson image, doesn’t it? The whole persona that’s built up around him.
And I I wanted to get some insight from you into that. When I returned to Los Angeles after the victory, Barry Gordy, the founder of Mottown Records, who Michael and his family worked with very early in their careers, uh, one of the most successful music producers in history, uh, invited me to a private lunch with he and his children uh, at the Peninsula Hotel in Beverly Hills.
And he said to me at that lunch, “Do you know that you cost the worldwide media billions of dollars when you acquitted him?” And that just sums it up. People wanted to make so much money on watching the great Michael Jackson rise high and then splatter. They wanted the story to have a miserable ending for him. They hoped they would see him in the courtroom in chains and jail clothes, without makeup, without his hair fixed up, without the clothing he liked to wear.
They were looking forward to seeing the final chapter where Michael Jackson gets destroyed and it was very disheartening to observe. ; So, you think it’s all tied into money? ; Yes. Money and fame and publicity, money, revenue, ratings, that kind of thing. The eight days when the jury deliberated at the end of the trial, I would turn on the TV and major networks in America were showing the jail cell they expected him to go to.
They were talking about the schedule he would be on, when he would wake up, what kind of food he would eat, uh what kind of books he’d be allowed to have in the prison, who could visit him, how do they stop him from committing suicide. This kind of stuff was going [snorts] on every day while the jury was deliberating.
And I have to believe it was designed to influence the jury. ; Does money also explain the multiple accusations over the years of him abusing children? ; I there’s no doubt in my mind that it makes for a salacious story. It makes for a lot of curious viewers, a lot of curious readers, and people are very intrigued with garbage and violence and abusive reporting.
Michael was a very very creative spirit, a very vulnerable person. He was kind to people throughout his lifetime and because of his wealth and his fame, he was a good target and there was always a perception that he was very vulnerable that people could exploit him. But how many boys how many boys how many families has he or the Jackson estate paid off over the years? I’m not aware of they’re paying anybody off other than a couple of settlements where he was advised by lawyers and business associates to pay money to end the story. And he regretted
doing it. He told me many times I should never have settled with a couple of people I settled with because all I did was open up Pandora’s box and and create all sorts of problems for him. And he really regretted paying a dime to anybody. He says, “I should have taken them all to trial. I should have been there to testify, but everyone around me who wasn’t writing the check told me to pay money and get rid of it because I had so many bigger things to do with my career and so much more money to make.
And unfortunately, he listened to them. ; He paid Jordan Chandler, the Chandler family, $20 million. ; Well, to make it go away. ; Again, uh according to Michael, he had lawyers and business adviserss who were telling him, “Pay the money. It’s a drop in the bucket with what you can make around the world.
You have an incredible career. There’s a lot more time to to to produce beautiful music and make a lot of money. This is nothing. Get rid of it. Stop the publicity. Do it now. And he followed their advice. ; But do you pay someone $20 million if you think you’re entirely innocent? ; Uh if $20 million is a drop in the bucket and you’re going to make billions uh instead, maybe you’d consider it.
Were you involved in any sort of um were you involved in any sort of outofc court settlements? ; No, I was not ; with with anyone in Michael Jackson. ; No, I was his criminal defense attorney only. I didn’t handle civil litigation for him. ; Do you know of any other off thereord payments that he’s made? Uh it came out in the trial that there was one other settlement uh that was done confidentially and the person who received the money in that settlement uh as well as his mother were witnesses for the prosecution.
; So again to keep them quiet. ; Two settlements to keep people quiet and to let his business career and musical career go forward. ; But you’re convinced that doesn’t say guilty. ; No. Absolutely not. Not when you put yourself in Michael Jackson’s shoes. When you see the kind of money this man could make, when you see the following he had around the world, when you realize what business potential existed with Michael Jackson products, with Michael Jackson music, with Michael Jackson tours, these amounts of money
were nothing compared to what he could make. And he was advised by some pretty shrewd people, pay off these people. You’ve got bigger fish to fry. You’ve got bigger things to do. Okay? And by the way, in all those settlements, there was no admission of liability. The people he gave money to agreed to sign a settlement agreement in which he did not admit any wrongdoing whatsoever.
And what does that tell you about them? ; Well, some might say that just paying the money is an admission of liability. ; Well, it’s not. It’s not. when you pay money to settle a case and you insist in a settlement agreement that there be a provision which says I’m not admitting to any wrongdoing.
Uh when the other side agrees to that, you can look at them and try and question what their motives might be. Certainly, it seems like nobody was doing it based on principle because if you’re you’re if you’re admitting that someone essentially I see that provision as an admission that nobody did anything wrong. That’s how I interpret it.
Uh if you’re taking money uh after suing someone claiming you were molested and you agree to a provision where they do not admit any wrongdoing whatsoever, that suggests that you may have ulterior motives, which might be more financially oriented than anything else. To me, that’s how I would see it. What about the former house staff at Neverland? Are they making up what they saw? I cross-examined another of the a number of these witnesses at trial and in my opinion they were among the worst witnesses I’ve ever seen in a courtroom.
You need to look at their testimony and particularly the cross-examination which they all looked terrible in. I mean so many witnesses by the prosecution in that trial just got destroyed on cross-examination which the media never reported. Most of these staff that testified in the trial had sued Michael Jackson also.
They went to trial and lost as well. A number of them had made contrary statements and contradictory statements before the criminal trial. Uh one time saying he never did anything wrong, other time saying uh he did. Um but many staffers sued him and lost. And because Michael Jackson prevailed in this particular lawsuit, in fact, he won a cross complaint for costs against many of these people, that was another reason why he told me he wished he had fought all of these cases to verdict.
He said, “Look, I tried to listen to my business advisors, my lawyers. They said, “End the publicity. It’s going to cost you much more than what you’re going to pay to settle and resolve these cases.” and he said, “I listen to them and I shouldn’t have.” ; Tom, let’s just stay with these accusers for a moment because I I’m fascinated by this.
Some of these accusers have not just changed their story slightly. They’ve done a 180. I mean, Wade Robson, he was your star witness in the trial that you defended Michael Jackson successfully in. Now, he says he molested him. Is there a possible explanation in the me too movement where people now feel more comfortable saying publicly, look, I was abused.
Can we now please do something about it? ; Right now, if you are accused of this type of thing, you are almost judge guilty before you can defend yourself. I think right now we’re going a little too far and a lot of people who are not honest, who are trying to capitalize on this particular movement are raising accusations that need to be challenged.
; You don’t think the freedom of the me too movement could be explained for these latest accusers coming up and saying that Michael Jackson molested them? ; I think the freedom of the me too movement has allowed false accusations to be made as well as real accusations. And we’ve got to be very careful to make sure we sift out what’s real and what’s false.
Well, I met with WDE Robson before he testified in the criminal trial. He wasn’t compelled to be there. He wasn’t forced to be there. He came with his mother and sister. They all seemed like very nice people. My impression of Wade was that he was intelligent, likable, articulate, and he was very, very strong in his defense of Michael Jackson.
He told me in no uncertain terms he had not been molested, he had not been abused, and that these claims were ridiculous. I mean, this man was so strongly supportive of Michael Jackson, so powerful in his defense of Michael Jackson that it just shocks me that he’s changed his story in recent years. I just can’t get over it because understand this, uh, in a criminal trial, if you call defense witnesses, you, the defense attorney, decide to put on your case, you are taking risks.
You were subjecting defense witnesses to cross-examination as well. And in this particular case, I thought we had done so well in cross-examining the prosecution’s witnesses that I had to think long and hard before I put on a defense case. And I concluded that even though probably 99% of lawyers in my position would probably rest and not put on a defense case, I didn’t want the jury to hang and Michael Jackson to go through another trial.
I didn’t think he could stand it physically and emotionally. I just didn’t want that to happen. So, I took a risk and put on an extensive defense case. And if you’re going to put on a defense case, you want to start strong and you want to end strong. I started strong with Wade Robson as my first witness. I ended strong with Chris Tucker, the famous comedian, as my last witness.
And Wade was so powerfully supportive of Michael Jackson that I wanted to start with him. McCauley Kulkin was my second witness who also was extremely supportive of Michael Jackson, claiming he never was improperly touched. Brett Barnes was my third witness from Australia who said that he was never improperly touched.
And he was angry that anyone suggested he was. He said words to the effect. Do you think I would come here on my own and testify like this if I had been molested? Jimmy safe Chuck I never met. But I knew he signed a sworn declaration under penalty of perjury saying he was not touched.
The prosecution wanted to bring in evidence that he was improperly touched and the judge would not allow that. So I never really met Mr. Savechuk. But Wade was so adamant that he hadn’t been abused and he was cross-examined by a very aggressive, very passionate, very skilled prosecutor, Ron Zonan, ; and didn’t break. ; Didn’t break at all.
He was adamant that he hadn’t been improperly touched by Michael at any time. ; So So how do you previously praise Michael Jackson, and now you say 14 years later, he did unspeakable things to me? Well, also remember that that he wanted to be apparently uh he wanted to be the choreographer for the Michael Jackson estate when they were preparing to put on the Michael Jackson musical play in Las Vegas.
; But he asked for a job. ; That’s my understanding. And the estate has told me that he wanted to be the lead choreographer for that show ; but got knocked back ; and they turned him down. ; He got knocked back. ; He got ; He got knocked back. I mean they Yeah. he was not hired for the job for reasons I don’t know.
Uh and my understanding is it was not long after he was denied that position that he changed his testimony, changed his story, and said that he was terribly abused. Now, if you were horribly abused by Michael Jackson in the way he describes, which is horrendous, why would you want to be the choreographer for the Michael Jackson show? So in terms of the complete reversal of these stories, you know, it’s not just a slight change, is it? ; No, ; you’re not just slightly changing your story.
; No, my understanding is Mr. Robson is claiming that he was violently abused, that there was forced anal intercourse, that he was bleeding, things like that. If he’s making those allegations, how could he not have remembered them when he spoke to me? How could he not have remembered them when he testified under oath in the trial that he was never molested or abused by Michael Jackson at any time? I can’t get over this.
; And Jimmy Safechuck, similarly, why would you now change your story completely? ; Again, look, if you if you take allegations that have been made against Michael Jackson through the years and put them under a microscope, nothing holds up. If you look at that $20 million settlement in the early 90s, I have to tell you the alleged victim in the case refused to testify for the prosecution in our criminal trial.
They put a lot of pressure on him to testify. ; Jordan Chandler. ; Jordan Chandler. We had some witnesses who claim he told them he never was molested. And he they claimed he said he was upset with his parents for having him make those statements. I don’t know if that’s true or not. This is what these people said. I know that he Mr.
Chandler sought legal emancipation from his parents and I believe his mother testified in the trial that she hadn’t seen him for many years. Um she testified with the prosecution. She thought he had been molested at that point. Um you look at all of these accusers under a microscope and you see financial gain as a primary motive in my opinion.
in my opinion because if your child is molested the way these people have accused Michael Jackson of doing it, you don’t just take a check and then sign a settlement agreement where Michael Jackson denies any liability at all. Okay? You don’t do that. You operate on principle. You don’t let Michael Jackson sign a document which absolves him of of liability uh or responsibility.
Having said that, fairly difficult, isn’t it, to come out as an adult publicly and admit that you’ve been molested. Is there any discount that you’re giving them for that? Why would you do that? If only only for money. Well, again, if you believe you have been molested as a child, and that’s a horrible allegation, that’s a serious criminal offense that can put you away in prison for life.
If you believe someone did that to you, do you let them sign a settlement agreement denying any liability whatsoever in return for a check? Is is it all about money? Apparently, it’s not about principle because if you were doing it on principle, you wouldn’t let a settlement agreement like that be executed.
So, you’ve got to look very carefully at people’s motives. And you’ve got to look very carefully at the facts. You’ve got the most famous person in the world, one of the wealthiest people in the world, perceived as very vulnerable, okay? And people constantly tried to exploit him throughout his lifetime. And he was getting subjected to frivolous lawsuits throughout his career by people who wanted to cash in.
You have to look carefully at what the allegations are and what the result is. And I maintain that if you claim you were molested by Michael Jackson repeatedly and violently and you take a check and sign an agreement with him where he denies any liability at all, that raises a red flag to me with respect to motives.
; Why doesn’t this sort of thing happen to a lot of other pop stars? I particularly Michael Jackson. ; Well, I think a lot of pop stars are sued frivolously. I I don’t have a lot of information to give you today. ; Not all for child abuse. I mean, it just keeps coming back to ; Well, you say it keeps coming back, but I mean, look at the look at the specifics of each allegation, and they all collapse.
Every one of these instances collapses when you look carefully at it. And you have to accept the fact that Michael Jackson was an unusually desirable target for everybody. He was subjected to so many lawsuits throughout his life, it was almost scandalous. ; But it wasn’t just about his bank balance, was it? It was also about partly his behavior which allowed those things to happen.
; Well, Michael Jackson is accused of eccentric, unusual behavior. That’s not a crime. Okay? Michael Jackson was the world’s greatest entertainer in his lifetime. Okay? To entertain, he was eccentric. He was different. He was creative. He made music that was beyond belief. He never took a dance lesson in his life.
Some people thought he was the greatest dancer ever. He was an immense target. And ; he builds a ranch for kids. ; Yeah. He built a ranch with a with an amusement park, with a zoo. And he busloadads of underprivileged kids from the inner city would come to Neverland. We had one of those visits while I was representing him where a lot of kids from Compton in Los Angeles who were in a uh a low-income neighborhood were bust up there to have fun.
I mean, to Michael Jackson, this was all public. None of it was hidden. And in his mind, this is as innocent as anything can be. He never dreamed somebody was going to turn this against him the way it was. ; The stories of him sharing his bed with children. Do you think that’s right? Well, first of all, his bed was about as big as this hotel we’re in. Okay.
And mothers and fathers and sisters slept on the bed, too. So, Michael Jackson repeatedly told me, “I’ve never improperly touched anyone. I’ve never molested anyone.” And the parents would sleep on my bed, and the sisters would sleep on my bed. The ; pro But don’t you think that’s a little bit strange? It was unusual, but it wasn’t criminal.
; No, but but isn’t he opening him isn’t he opening himself up? ; That was a terrible mistake because he was such a public figure, so vulnerable to false allegations, so vulnerable to lawsuits that it was a mistake to do that. And after the trial, he told me that’s not happening again. Now, you look at many cultures around the world and you’ll see that parents and kids and cousins all sleep in the same bed.
I mean, sleeping in the bed with children is not a criminal offense. You have to take it to the level of sexual behavior. And we prove that he didn’t do that. Tom, I want to ask you specifically about one of the housemates because housemmaids because she’s come uh she has now come back into um public view with this uh you know release of this documentary and comments around the world on various websites and that sort of thing.
What do you make? What do you make of Adrienne McManis? ; Well, I haven’t seen or spoken to her since I cross-examined her in the trial, and I thought she was perhaps one of the worst witnesses I’ve ever seen in a criminal courtroom. And I’ve been doing this for decades. She contradicted herself, I thought very often, and it was one of the most effective cross-examinations I’ve ever conducted.
I mean, as I recall, and I haven’t looked at the testimony for many years, she had testified under oath before the trial that he had not abused anyone. And there were some other problems. Take a look at her cross-examination. I think you’ll be shocked at what you say. ; What about her claims that she was threatened by Jackson’s people? She was intimidated by the staff in fear for her life, wanted to keep her job.
That’s why she didn’t tell the truth initially. ; I don’t believe it for a second. I just don’t believe it. ; Don’t buy it. I cross-examined her. I watched her. The jury watched her. And she was discredited in my opinion repeatedly. So when she says that she saw Michael Jackson do certain things, that she cleaned his bedroom for years, found certain things, you don’t buy it.
; I don’t believe it for a second. Look at the cross-examination of this witness and then tell me what you think. Okay. You don’t you’re certain about that then? What I mean again, I know this I’m going to sound like a broken record, so excuse me, but what’s her motivation for saying these things 25 years later about Michael Jackson? ; What was her motivation in the trial for doing it? Look at the cross-examination.
look at her history with Michael Jackson, including litigation, including all sorts of issues that I think will open your eyes to her. In my opinion, I I have looked at that. I mean, I know I know she was sued along with four other House staff and lost that lawsuit. They sued for wrongful dismissal and Michael Jackson won that suit and was awarded I think they were 1.
6 million against against them. um against each of them or against the lot. I can’t remember exactly. I can’t recall off the top of my head. But um I think you say in that uh transcript I think you say you remind her that uh he forgave that debt by the payment of only a dollar. Why why would he do that? ; I don’t recall the testimony at this point.
I’d have to review it uh to really answer your question. Uh, I have not looked at that testimony since verdict day. Um, so I’d have I’d have to take another look at it. ; I was surprised by the by the I just thought you might have recalled that moment. I was surprised by the uh the um last that he exhibited at that stage. I mean he could have made them, you know, go into debt and continue to repay it, but obviously he forgave the forgave the debt.
You you can’t recall that at all? No. Uh, I don’t recall the specifics of that. I’d have to look at the cross-examination. I remember that uh that a number of former employees had sued Michael Jackson. It was a long civil trial. Michael Jackson cross complained against them and Michael Jackson won. They lost and there was a big money judgment against them, but I don’t remember the details.
; Okay. You know, after that trial, at the end of that trial, did you ever say to Michael Jackson, look, you have to be more careful? Oh, Michael Jackson understood after that trial that he had to be more careful. That he was a sitting duck for propheteers, for unscrupulous people, for people who wanted to just take advantage of the legal system and go after him.
They did that throughout his lifetime. I mean, Michael Jackson was a very convenient target for frivolous lawsuits and frivolous accusations and life is difficult and people have financial requirements and people want to get wealthy and uh he was constantly subjected in my opinion to frivolous claims. the events that led to that trial, the whole Gavin Viso accusations.
Am I right in saying that that was spurred by the Martin Basher documentary? Yes, I think the Martin Basher documentary was a disaster for Michael Jackson. I think he never should have trusted Mr. Basher to do an objective, professional documentary. Uh I believe he was tricked into cooperating with Mr. Basher because he had great respect for Princess Diana and Michael was told that she had allowed Mr.
Basher to do her biography and letting Mr. Basher do a do a documentary of Michael Jackson was one of the most awful decisions he ever made. ; Why do you think that? You think the result was slanted? Do you ; I think Mr. Basher turned it all against him. Uh tried to create a sensationalist documentary uh for personal gain. That’s my opinion.
and it was spliced together and put together in a way which in my opinion was designed to make Michael look bad. If you look at the outtakes that were not included in the documentary, you see a very different Michael Jackson. You see Mr. Basher complimenting Michael Jackson on his parenting skills, on the way he conducts his life, and it the whole thing was a disaster, I think.
And and that documentary, Living with Michael Jackson, that set the scene, did it? In terms of the the the the um in terms of the in terms of the district attorney uh in charge of that case eventually and the local um uh district attorney, do you think that set the scene for lawmakers to think, well, hang on, there’s something going on here? I think that documentary pushed things over the top.
Remember, you had a very, very aggressive, overzealous district attorney who starting in the early 90s looked to get an indictment against Michael Jackson. In the early 90s, there was a grand jury investigation in Santa Barbara County, California. There was a grand jury investigation in Los Angeles County, California. Throughout the mid 90s, uh, Mr.
Snedden traveled outside of America looking for witnesses against Michael Jackson. There was an incident, unfortunately, where Michael Jackson made fun of the district attorney in a music video. Um, which I think was something he should not have been advised to do. Uh, but this Barton Basher documentary, in my opinion, pushed things over the edge and made this very aggressive, overzealous district attorney think he now had a case against Michael Jackson.
; Did that lead to the police raid? ; I think it had a lot to do with the police raid. I think the documentary made Mr. Snedden think I now have a winnable case against him. Uh, in November of 2003, at Mr. Snedden’s request, 70 sheriffs from Santa Barbara County made a surprise raid on Neverland. ; 70 ; 70 uh approximately 70 sheriffs raided Neverland.
Scoured every building, every room, for computers, for documentary evidence, anything they could find. Um they were relentless in their efforts to find evidence to convict Michael Jackson with. ; And in a raid of that size, what did they find? Nothing in my opinion. Michael Jackson was acquitted.
The jury said not guilty 14 times, 10 felonies, four misdemeanors. It was a clean sweep. In my opinion, they found absolutely nothing. ; 70 sheriffs and they couldn’t find anything to pin on. 70 sheriffs. ; They tried to They tried to look at his computers. They tried to look at what was in his closets, what was in his drawers.
They made a mess out of his bedroom. They went into the animal quarters where his giraffes and elephants and and uh all the animals were kept. They scoured the place looking for evidence and in my opinion they found nothing. ; I would have thought a raid of that size you would have had to have had reasonable evidence prior to it to obtain the warrants.
; Not in my opinion. I think this was a mission uh by a district attorney who in my opinion was overzealous, overaggressive, convinced himself that Michael Jackson was a criminal and thought he would find a way to build a strong case against Michael Jackson. And I think he thought he had one going into the trial.
I think he deluded himself. I don’t think he realized how vulnerable a lot of his witnesses were to cross-examination. And I’ve never been in a trial where so many witnesses collapsed on cross-examination as this one. It it just was remarkable that he would throw all these witnesses on the stand under oath and then they would just collapse on cross-examination.
I’ve never seen anything quite like it in my whole career. ; Why was the district attorney so desperate to pin Michael Jackson? ; I really don’t know. I really don’t know. He was very respected in Santa Barbara County. Uh many people in Santa Barbara County thought he was ethical and principled. Um some did not, but he’d been elected repeatedly uh for many many years.
He had an exceptional winning record in the courtroom. And a lot of people thought because he wanted to bring this case, there must be merit to it. And I can tell you after five months in the courtroom, there was no merit to this case. ; He was convinced that Michael Jackson was guilty of criminal. I think he convinced himself that Michael Jackson was guilty of the charged crimes.
And I just shake my head when I think of these allegations that Michael Jackson would mastermind a criminal conspiracy to falsely imprison a family, to abduct children, to commit criminal extortion. Michael Jackson wouldn’t know how to even begin to imagine such a thing. I ; mean, you’re one person that knows in life there’s a lot of gray, not a lot of black and white.
But you’re adamant, aren’t you? You don’t think Michael Jackson has molested one single person? ; Michael was a creative spirit. He danced to his own drummer. He saw things we don’t see. He heard things we don’t hear. He was a creative genius. He was eccentric. He was different. And he was an artist.
I don’t believe he was a molester for 5 seconds. If we look at the history of this though, the number of accusers, Chandler, Gavin Aizo, Wade Robson, now Jimmy Safechuck, I mean, are they all making it up? Let’s look at them individually. Safechuck swore under penalty of perjury that he wasn’t abused. Robson swore under penalty of perjury that he wasn’t abused.
Our viso wasn’t believed by the jury. Two other people were paid off to end the litigation, to end the lawsuit so he could get on with his career. So when you look at everyone under a microscope, what do you really come up with? Not much. ; Well, a lot more than most mere mortals face in their lifetime. ; But he’s the biggest target on the planet.
He was the most famous person on the planet. He was immensely wealthy. He was perceived as immensely vulnerable. This made him a target throughout his life. But and and he’s being attacked even in death by people who want money. And I sat with him for five months, five days a week in a criminal courtroom watching not just the Arzo allegations, but other allegations being made against him.
Allegations that he had molested McCaulay Kulkin. Allegations that he had molested a whole bunch of other people. The prosecution even said Mr. Robson had been molested. They said Wade Brett Barnes had been molested. I started my case with three of these young men getting up under oath voluntarily traveling to Santa Barbara, California.
Two of them from or one from overseas, one from Australia. Uh and all saying he never touched me, he never abused me. He’s my friend. I saw these allegations collapse one after another in that courtroom. Uh, I saw the Chandler allegations collapse. I saw other allegations collapse. I saw from morning till evening what happened when jurors watched witnesses examined by the prosecutor, then cross-examined by the defense attorney.
And at the end of those five months, I came to an absolute conclusion, which I’d already come to before the trial started. But it was even stronger at the end of that trial when this very conservative jury in a very law and order town with a very high conviction rate, very conservative credentials, and very bright.
I saw them go not guilty 14 times. And that experience seared into my soul a very strong belief that Michael Jackson never molested anyone. Michael Jackson had an affinity for children. He never had a childhood. He wanted to be good to children because he had the financial resources to do it. He built an amusement park. He built a zoo.
He invited inner city children. He invited invited disabled children. He paid for children for have surgeries around the world. kids who were in trouble financially and had disabilities. He did so many good things and to try and turn that around into making him uh a horrendous criminal was really tragic.
And I think it had a lot to do with shortening his life. ; Do you think if he was still alive, do you think these people would now be coming out and saying the same thing that he molested me? ; I just don’t know. I mean, I think uh I have to believe these are financially motivated accusations. I have to believe that because how else can you explain it? Um I take that into account, too.
But I personally am not involved in their civil lawsuits. I’ve not represented anybody in them. I’ve not been present for any of the proceedings. I don’t know who said what in those cases. I just know the evidence that I saw. And that leads me to a very powerful conclusion that Michael Jackson never abused a child at any time, never tried to hurt a child.
We had testimony in the trial that he said he would slit his wrists before he would hurt a child. ; I just find it fascinating that you’re you’re so insistent on this a long time after the trial has has finished. I find that very powerful. But I find it interesting too from just coming back full circle to what we were saying about representing people.
Everyone has to have a decent representation. There’s no doubt about that. I’m not arguing that. Uh and I agree with you. That’s the way the legal system functions properly. Um but you know, I note with interest you defended Bill Cosby. Now, you wouldn’t be saying the same thing about Bill Cosby, would you? ; I think Bill Cosby’s innocent.
I don’t think Bill Cosby. ; You still think he’s innocent? ; I absolutely do. I don’t believe that Bill Cosby molested anybody. Uh again, every time I look at these accusations under a microscope, uh I see things that the press doesn’t report and I see things that the public doesn’t know. And you take into account when these accusations were made.
You take into account what time period they concern. And I sat through that trial and I believe Mr. Cosby is innocent and I always will.
